Updated August 26, 2012
Vatican's greatest Pied Piper pathological liar John Allen is at it again entertaining 1.2 Billion Catholics with more lies smarter than Satan in the Garden of Eden. Here in his article today, "Taking its medicine does the Vatican some good" (see article below) he makes Catholic feel-good about the corrupt Evil Vatican Bank that bought the soul of the Oregon judge who decreed that the Vatican is not the employer of priests, one of the biggest lies at the dawn of the 21st century. May God hasten the total demise of the Vatican as predicted by the Third Secret of Fatima that fortold that "not one pillar of St. Peter's Square and not one rubble of the Vatican will be left standing just like the Temple of Solomon" because God cannot stand the sight of the Opus Dei Golden Cow John Paul II as the fastest tracking saint... see his narcissistic statues here http://stella0maris.blogspot.ca/
Read our latest related article
Obama admin versus Vatican Bank: A compilation. USA government lists Vatican as 'potential money-laundering center' http://popecrimes.blogspot.ca/2012/03/obama-admin-list-vatican-as-potential.html
Hypocrite Benedict silenced Fr. Tony Flannery, Brian D'Arcy – A compilation… but he does not silence Cardinal Bernard Law and JP2 Army – John Paul II Pedophile Priests http://popecrimes.blogspot.ca/2012/04/hypocrite-benedict-silenced-outspoken.html
NCAA & Penn State more moral than Vatican. Sports is more moral than John Paul II, Benedict XVI, Vatican Titanic sinking in moral bankruptcy
The Devil’s Twin, Premier Vatican Pied Piper John Allen is at his best elements again as he honks for “Holy Father” Benedict XVI the Criminal Pope of the 20th Century. John Allen of course uses his subliminal titles to make his Catholic readers “feel-good” about their criminal pope, as in one his most recent titles, Rome Notebook: Vati-leaks, money, and 'it's good to be pope'. “It’s good to be pope” is rubbing salt on the wounds of victims of the JP2 Army or B16 Army Benedict XVI Pedophile Priests Army http://jp2army.blogspot.ca/
On Benedict ‘s recent trip to Cuba, John Allen wrote, “Benedict XVI gentle debunk on clericalism”, but John Allen falls flat on his face when he was proven wrong because upon the return of the pope in the Vatican, he silenced Fr. Tony Flannery and several Irish priests, read about it here http://popecrimes.blogspot.ca/2012/04/hypocrite-benedict-silenced-outspoken.html
Now, John Allen’s Devil’s cunning job is to shift the focus of Catholics and the world away from Benedict XVI and his crimes against humanity pending at The Hague and start all kinds of Catholic entertainment (which he is good at) by honking out speculations on who should be the next pope, as in his recent article, Introducing a new papal candidate, see news updates below
John Allen’s NCR column used to be called “The Word from Rome
Just like criminal Cardinal Bernard Law and criminal Fr. Marcial Maciel, the founder of the Legion of Christ, John Allen paints the pope as a living saint. The Vatican is the worst liar as they paint criminal popes centuries after centuries, inspite of their crimes, as holy in the mosaics and paintings in the Vatican
Here is how John Allen fool the English speaking Catholics around the world in his latest articles covering – with his first-class seat near the pope – during Benedict’s trip to Mexico and Cuba
The infallible Pope is honking again for the perpetuation of the almighty powers of priests. Priests are supposed to be so powerful as to be able to “transubstantiate” and command Christ to be reincarnated in 9-seconds in the Eucharist (versus Mary's 9-months pregnancy) -- but they cannot say “Let here be light, let there be a star in the sky, let it rain over the Vatican, let the dead dog walk again, let there be fish, let there be bread on the table - now.” But they can say "let there be Christ's flesh and blood on this Host - now!" See our article "Magisterium Benedict VERSUS Holy Mary: Priests' transubstantiation instant reincarnation of Christ VERSUS Mary’s 9 months pregnancy & child birth" http://stella0maris.blogspot.com/
And according to Vatican dogma, no matter what sinful state priests are in, no matter how frequent they sodomize altar boys, their bestiality will not affect their power of reincarnating Christ’s flesh and Blood in the Mass. This dogma on the Real Presence: "the whole Christ" is "truly," "really," and "substantially" contained in the Eucharist is absolute sorcery and divination worse than the magic of Harry Potter! Furthermore, "For children before the age of reason, the reception of the Eucharist is not necessary for salvation" and so John Paul II and Cardinal Ratzinger now Benedict XVI were so heartless as to allow hundreds of thousands of children to be helpless pawns to satisfy the bestiality of powerful priests like Fr. Marcial Maciel, see our article "Reasons why priest pedophilia is eternal: John Paul II the Great “Saint”, “The Conscience” of the ‘Age of Benedict XVI’, “Holy Father” Marcial Maciel" http://jp2m.blogspot.com/2010/06/reasons-why-priest-pedophilia-is.html
Benedict XVI wants to have his cake and eat it too. He wants priests to be “above secular laity” (whether they are as sinful or worse) priests must have the adulation and "love" at the same time from the laity. He keeps asking the laity "to love priests in spite of their weaknesses", for what really? For the hocus-pocus of the Eucharist?
Benedict XVI does not practice what he preach
Last Sunday, preaching before the youth in Sulmona, Italy, Benedict XVI praised Celestine V, a 13th-century hermit who resigned the papacy because he believed he was not up to the task of being a pope. Benedict XVI should imitate Celestine V and resign immediately because he is the worst Pope next to John Paul II for condoning and covering-up the “Priestly Sodomy of Biblical Proportions” committed by the John Paul II Pedophile Priests Army http://jp2army.blogspot.com/
Benedict also praised Celestine V's "simple and humble lifestyle can serve as an example for modern men and women” and “for his detachment from material things such as money and clothes.” "We, too, who live in an epoch of greater comfort and possibilities, are called upon to appreciate a sober lifestyle."
Well, look who is talking. Benedict XVI has tiaras that keep getting bigger each month, spectacular papal robes, one robe that can feed 10 entire African villages for a year, and his wealthy lifestyle of the rich and famous at the Vatican palace certainly is no “detachment from material things such as money and clothes.” He is a Midas Pope greedy for the trillion dollars Vatican Bank.
Benedict XVI and his pedophile priests preach -- but they do not practise -- what they preach.
And he wants the Catholic flock to “love their priests in spite of their weaknesses”? The Hell with you Benedict XVI! Go to Hell with all your pedophiliac weaknesses and join the John Paul II Pedophile Priests Army in Hell who have ruined hundreds of thousands of Catholic children.
You are supposed to be “Holy Fathers” but instead you are “Evil Fathers” performing the sorcery of Christ’s flesh and blood. You are using the Eucharist to brainwash and control the purses of 1.1 billion Catholics.
Your days are numbered and the Vatican shall turn into dust as predicted by the Third Secret of Fatima -- which you refuse to reveal -- because it would be a self-fulfilling prophecy. And there would be a clock bigger than Big Ben to chronicle the time when the total demise of the Vatican is going to take place.Compare the CRIMES and their VICTIMS in America
Victims - Attackers - Responsible Leaders
Pearl Harbor - 3,000 victims - 170 planes - Admiral Yamamoto
WTC & 9/11 attacks - 5,000 victims - 19 Muslims - Osama bin Laden
USA Priest Pedophilia - 12,000 victims - 6,000 priests - John Paul II & Benedict XVI & Opus Dei, the new Vatican Trinity
===========
And according to Vatican dogma, no matter what sinful state priests are in, no matter how frequent they sodomize altar boys, their bestiality will not affect their power of reincarnating Christ’s flesh and Blood in the Mass. This dogma on the Real Presence: "the whole Christ" is "truly," "really," and "substantially" contained in the Eucharist is absolute sorcery and divination worse than the magic of Harry Potter! Furthermore, "For children before the age of reason, the reception of the Eucharist is not necessary for salvation" and so John Paul II and Cardinal Ratzinger now Benedict XVI were so heartless as to allow hundreds of thousands of children to be helpless pawns to satisfy the bestiality of powerful priests like Fr. Marcial Maciel, see our article "Reasons why priest pedophilia is eternal: John Paul II the Great “Saint”, “The Conscience” of the ‘Age of Benedict XVI’, “Holy Father” Marcial Maciel" http://jp2m.blogspot.com/2010/06/reasons-why-priest-pedophilia-is.html
Benedict XVI wants to have his cake and eat it too. He wants priests to be “above secular laity” (whether they are as sinful or worse) priests must have the adulation and "love" at the same time from the laity. He keeps asking the laity "to love priests in spite of their weaknesses", for what really? For the hocus-pocus of the Eucharist?
Benedict XVI does not practice what he preach
Last Sunday, preaching before the youth in Sulmona, Italy, Benedict XVI praised Celestine V, a 13th-century hermit who resigned the papacy because he believed he was not up to the task of being a pope. Benedict XVI should imitate Celestine V and resign immediately because he is the worst Pope next to John Paul II for condoning and covering-up the “Priestly Sodomy of Biblical Proportions” committed by the John Paul II Pedophile Priests Army http://jp2army.blogspot.com/
Benedict also praised Celestine V's "simple and humble lifestyle can serve as an example for modern men and women” and “for his detachment from material things such as money and clothes.” "We, too, who live in an epoch of greater comfort and possibilities, are called upon to appreciate a sober lifestyle."
Well, look who is talking. Benedict XVI has tiaras that keep getting bigger each month, spectacular papal robes, one robe that can feed 10 entire African villages for a year, and his wealthy lifestyle of the rich and famous at the Vatican palace certainly is no “detachment from material things such as money and clothes.” He is a Midas Pope greedy for the trillion dollars Vatican Bank.
Benedict XVI and his pedophile priests preach -- but they do not practise -- what they preach.
And he wants the Catholic flock to “love their priests in spite of their weaknesses”? The Hell with you Benedict XVI! Go to Hell with all your pedophiliac weaknesses and join the John Paul II Pedophile Priests Army in Hell who have ruined hundreds of thousands of Catholic children.
You are supposed to be “Holy Fathers” but instead you are “Evil Fathers” performing the sorcery of Christ’s flesh and blood. You are using the Eucharist to brainwash and control the purses of 1.1 billion Catholics.
Your days are numbered and the Vatican shall turn into dust as predicted by the Third Secret of Fatima -- which you refuse to reveal -- because it would be a self-fulfilling prophecy. And there would be a clock bigger than Big Ben to chronicle the time when the total demise of the Vatican is going to take place.Compare the CRIMES and their VICTIMS in America
Victims - Attackers - Responsible Leaders
Pearl Harbor - 3,000 victims - 170 planes - Admiral Yamamoto
WTC & 9/11 attacks - 5,000 victims - 19 Muslims - Osama bin Laden
USA Priest Pedophilia - 12,000 victims - 6,000 priests - John Paul II & Benedict XVI & Opus Dei, the new Vatican Trinity
===========
Pope praises life of 13th-century pontiff who quit
The Associated Press
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hlOIsVxsHeMV8qFTzM-q0xIf05NAD9GOBVJ80
SULMONA,
Read our related articles:Benedict did not directly mention the clergy abuse scandal that has rocked the Catholic church for months. But during a daylong visit to a central Italian town, he received a round of applause and words of support by local youths greeting him "in this time of harsh attacks and media provocation."
Minutes later, Benedict told the youths that "for all our weaknesses, still priests are a precious presence in life."
The trip to Sulmona was dedicated to honoring Celestine V, the 13th-century hermit who resigned the papacy saying that he was not up to the task.
Benedict said his simple and humble lifestyle can serve as an example for modern men and women. The pontiff praised his predecessor for his detachment from material things such as money and clothes.
"We, too, who live in an epoch of greater comfort and possibilities, are called upon to appreciate a sober lifestyle," the pope said.
Celestine V resigned just months after becoming pope in 1294 at age 85. He was later put under guard for fear he would become the rallying point for a schism. Celestine died in 1296 and was declared a saint in 1313.
Pédophilie: Benoît XVI demande d'aimer les prêtres malgré leurs "faiblesses"
L'ITALIE
TFI News (France)
SULMONA, 4 juillet 2010 (AFP) - Le pape Benoît XVI a demandé, dimanche à Sulmona (centre de l'Italie) d'aimer les prêtres malgré leurs «faiblesse», dans une référence implicite aux scandales de pédophilie qui secouent l'Église.
«Aimez votre évêque, aimez vos prêtres: malgré leurs faiblesses, ils sont une présence précieuse dans la vie», a dit Benoît XVI, rajoutant oralement le terme de «faiblesses» à son discours écrit.
Lors d'une rencontre avec quelque 200 jeunes, le pape a également dénoncé la société de consommation. «La culture de consommation actuelle tend à attacher l'homme au présent, à lui faire perdre le sens du passé, de l'histoire», a-t-il dit, affirmant que cela «prive» les hommes «de la capacité de se comprendre, de percevoir les problèmes et de construire le futur».
Il a aussi dénoncé «de fausses valeurs et des modèles illusoires qui sont proposés (aux jeunes) et promettent de remplir leur vie alors qu'ils la vident».
Le pape s'est rendu à Sulmona, dans la région défavorisée des Abruzzes, touchée par un tremblement de terre meurtrier dans la zone de L'Aquila le 6 avril 2009, qui a fait plus de 300 morts, à l'occasion du 800e anniversaire de la naissance d'un de ses prédécesseurs, Célestin V (1209-1296), un des rares papes à avoir démissionné, après cinq mois de pontificat.
Dans la matinée, lors d'une messe en plein air, il avait exprimé son soutien à ceux qui vivent dans la «précarité, en raison du manque de travail, de l'incertitude pour l'avenir, de la souffrance physique et morale et de la sensation d'égarement due au séisme».
Avant de quitter la localité pour rejoindre le Vatican, il s'est recueilli sur la tombe de son prédécesseur, répétant un geste accompli l'an dernier à L'Aquila, peu après le tremblement de terre.
[summary]
Pope Benedict XVI on Sunday asked people to love priests despite their "weakness" in an implicit reference to the pedophilia scandals that have shaken the church. He called on people to love their bishops and priests despite any shortcomings. He was speaking at Sulmona in Central Italy.
John L. Allen Jr supports Fr. Marcial Maciel and the Legion of Christ through his headline: 'True believers' on Maciel still kicking http://jp2m.blogspot.ca/2011/02/john-l-allen-jr-supports-fr-marcial.html
Premier Vaticanista John L. Allen Jr describes his unlimited access into the Vatican
John L. Allen glorifies U.S.
John L.Allen Jr.Pied Piper of John Paul II deceives Catholics with his essay Fast-Track Saint in Newsweek -- with Vatican lunacy & Satanic timeline http://jp2army.blogspot.ca/
=============
Benedict's gentle debunk of clericalism
UNITED STATES
National Catholic Reporter
National Catholic Reporter
by John L Allen Jr on Mar. 30, 2012 All Things Catholic
Pope Benedict XVI's diplomatic high-wire act in Havana, pressing the case for religious freedom but avoiding direct clash with the Castro regime, was the main news flash out of his March 23-28 trip to Mexico and Cuba. Yet there was another leitmotif to the outing, more subtle but arguably more decisive for the church across Latin America .
Not to put too fine a point on it, the pope offered a gentle, yet unmistakable, debunking of clericalism. His focus seemed to be the gradual reshaping of ecclesial culture, not sexy short-term headlines, which puts it squarely into Benedict's wheelhouse.
Catholicism in Latin America is wildly diverse, from the emotional popular Catholicism of various Marian devotions to the "base communities" that were the backbone of liberation theology. One important current, however, has long been a remarkably strong form of clericalism, perhaps the inevitable result of the faith being effectively a monopoly until quite recently.
Typical expressions of this clericalism include:
•Clergy see themselves as political powerbrokers, playing a direct role in affairs of state.
•The church projects an image of power and privilege, with its preferred spiritual imagery emphasizing God as a cosmic monarch.
•The role of the laity is conceived in largely passive terms -- "pay, pray and obey."
•Little premium is placed on evangelization or faith formation, with pastoral care understood largely in terms of administering the sacraments.
•Clergy see themselves as political powerbrokers, playing a direct role in affairs of state.
•The church projects an image of power and privilege, with its preferred spiritual imagery emphasizing God as a cosmic monarch.
•The role of the laity is conceived in largely passive terms -- "pay, pray and obey."
•Little premium is placed on evangelization or faith formation, with pastoral care understood largely in terms of administering the sacraments.
The negative pastoral consequences of this kind of clericalism are now stunningly clear. Facing the twin onslaughts of secularism in some circles and Pentecostalism pretty much everywhere, the Catholic church across Latin America sustained massive losses in percentage terms during the late 20th century. (Raw numbers of Catholics rose as a result of the overall population boom, but the Catholic share of the continent declined, partly because of the astronomic growth of Pentecostal and Evangelical Christianity.)
It may seem ironic that a papal trip, with all of its attendant clerical imagery, would be the vehicle for a critique of clericalism. It might also seem ironic, at least to some, that Benedict would be the pope to do it, given that critics through the years have accused him of defending a sort of "high church" ecclesiology over against a popular Catholicism "from below."
The fabric of history, however, is often stitched with irony, and this trip seems a compelling case in point.
The church and politics
First, Benedict insisted that the Catholic church is not a political party, and that its most important contribution to political life is the formation of individual consciences -- putting the premium on the role of clergy as pastors, not pundits or activists.
Benedict struck that note even before arriving in Latin America, on the papal plane shortly after takeoff from Rome
In León's Bicentennial Park
"His kingdom does not stand on the power of his armies subduing others through force or violence," the pope said. "It rests on a higher power that wins over hearts -- the love of God."
In that spirit, Benedict called on Catholics to be "courageous in humility."
Benedict walked his own talk, avoiding anything that might be construed as direct political commentary in the run-up to Mexico Mexico
Yet Benedict never said anything about the looming elections, even something anodyne like a generic call to electoral responsibility. Strikingly, he largely avoided the hot-button issues of abortion and gay marriage, both of which are in play in Mexico and other parts of Latin America . (During his Angelus remarks Sunday, Benedict did refer to the importance of "defense and respect for human life.")
As far as the political loyalties of the Catholic church, Benedict insisted that the church should "stand beside those who are marginalized as the result of force, power or a prosperity which is blind to the poorest of the poor."
The pope did say that the faith must have consequences for public life, at one point rejecting a "schizophrenia" that tries to separate private ethics and public morality. Yet even here, the pope stressed that the role of the church is "education of consciences" rather than offering direct legislative solutions.
In general, Benedict XVI seemed determined to offer Latin America an example of how a senior Catholic cleric could spend several days in an intense media spotlight without coming off as a politician in a cassock.
A God who's 'small and close'
During his remarks aboard the papal plane, Benedict delivered a meditation on what he called in Italian an "essentialized Christianity," meaning a Christianity focused on "the fundamental basis for living today amid all the problems of our time."
At the heart of that Christianity of the essentials, the pope argued, is the idea of a God who is small and close to each human person -- in addition to the "great and majestic" God, the sort of spiritual imagery long associated with a clericalist church.
"We see the rationality of the cosmos, we see that there's something behind it, but we don't see how close this God is, how God concerns me, too," the pope said.
"This synthesis of the great and majestic God, as well as the small God who's close to me and who shows me the values of my life, is the nucleus of evangelization," Benedict said.
In his speech to the Latin American bishops, Benedict argued that this notion of a small and close God flows naturally into a spirit of service.
"The church cannot separate the praise of God from service to others," he said.
"The one God, our father and creator, has made us brothers and sisters: to be human is to be a brother and guardian to our neighbor," the pope said. "Along this path, in union with the whole human family, the church must relive and make present what Jesus was: the Good Samaritan who came from afar, entered our human history, lifted us up and sought to heal us."
No second-class citizenship for laity
Benedict's most direct swipe at clericalism came in discussion of the lay role in the church.
Not coincidentally, the pope chose an address to the bishops of Latin America and the Caribbean in León's cathedral to make the point, emphasizing that he was speaking not just to Mexico
"Greater attention is due to the members of the lay faithful most engaged in the fields of catechesis, liturgical animation, charitable activity and social commitment," the pope said. "Their faith formation is critical if the Gospel is to become present and fruitful in contemporary society."
That alone would be enough to pull the rug out from under an über-clericalist psychology, in which applying the faith to contemporary society is treated as the exclusive province of the clerical caste and "faith formation" for laity has sometimes been an afterthought more honored in the breach than the observance.
To be sure that no one missed the point, however, Benedict added an even more direct injunction about the laity.
"It is not right for them to feel treated like second-class citizens in the church," he said, "despite the committed work which they carry out in accordance with their proper vocation, and the great sacrifice which this dedication at times demands of them."
The pope also called for "a spirit of communion" to prevail among priests, religious and the lay faithful, insisting that "sterile divisions, criticism and unhealthy mistrust" should be avoided.
The 'Continental Mission
Finally, Benedict repeatedly endorsed the call for a great "Continental Mission," which came out of the last general assembly of the Latin American bishops in Aparecida , Brazil
The twin pillars of this "Continental Mission", as it was conceived five years ago, are:
- A strong role for the laity as the front-line evangelists
- A solid formation in the faith for all of
Latin America 's Catholic population, not just clerical (or even lay) elites
Time and again, Benedict XVI returned to this idea, stressing that evangelization and faith formation are everybody's concern.
"The Continental Mission now taking place in the various dioceses of this continent has the specific task of transmitting this conviction to all Christians and ecclesial communities," the pope said, "so that they may resist the temptation of a faith that is superficial and routine, at times fragmentary and incoherent."
That bit about a "superficial" faith is, indirectly at least, a swipe at one of the most notorious pathologies of clericalism, in which most laity are baptized, confirmed and married in the church, but otherwise left to fend for themselves.
The obvious fallout from that laissez-faire pastoral approach has been captured in a bit of Spanish argot: Católico ignorante, seguro Protestante, which, loosely translated, means, "An ignorant Catholic will, for sure, become a Protestant." The idea is that somebody who doesn't know why they're Catholic in the first place is a good candidate to take their religious business elsewhere when an attractive offer comes along.
Benedict called for this Continental Mission to be at the heart of the "Year of Faith" he recently proclaimed.
A footnote on the cartels and Maciel
In remarks on Saturday during a vespers service, before a gathering of Latin American bishops that one Italian writer referred to as a "Latin conclave," Benedict XVI referred to "our weakness and needs" and the reality of "human evil and ignorance," even within the church.
The comments were interpreted as an indirect reference to two chapters of recent Mexican history that have badly stained the image of Catholic clergy: the cozy relationship some clergy appear to have with the drug cartels and their overlords -- who sometimes attend Mass and even give money to the church to demonstrate their Catholic bona fides -- and the case of the late Fr. Marcial Maciel Degollado, founder of the Legionaries of Christ, who committed various forms of sexual abuse and misconduct.
Benedict never directly mentioned the Maciel case, and declined a request to meet with Maciel's victims. In a session with young people, however, the pope invited "everyone to protect and to care for children, so that nothing may extinguish their smile, but that they may live in peace and look to the future with confidence."
Will it work?
Changing the ecclesial culture of an entire continent isn't easy, and most observers will tell you that the deconstruction of clericalism in Latin America is still a work in progress. Moreover, it's not clear if the new embrace by the bishops of a robust missionary spirit featuring lay leadership is truly a matter of metanoia, of a lasting change of heart and mind, or simply a pragmatic response to getting their teeth kicked in by the Pentecostals.
Yet there are signs that Catholicism in Latin America, in fits and starts, is navigating the transition from clericalism to a more dynamic (and, of course, therefore more fissiparous and frenetic) spirit of entrepreneurial hustle.
In his 2008 book Conversion of a Continent, Dominican Fr. Edward Cleary argues that Latin America is in the grip of a religious upheaval, with Pentecostalism as its leading edge. Yet Catholicism too, Cleary argues, is also becoming more dynamic, generating higher levels of commitment among those who remain. Cleary believes that this Catholic awakening had its roots in lay movements that go back to the 1930s and '40s, but it's been jump-started by healthy competition from the Pentecostals.
If the transition away from unhealthy clericalism is brought to a successful conclusion, Benedict's March 2012 trip may be remembered as a turning point -- not so much in terms of triggering the shift, perhaps, but at least lending it papal support.
[John L. Allen Jr. is NCR's senior correspondent. His email address is jallen@ncronline.org.]
http://ncronline.org/blogs/all-things-catholic/benedicts-gentle-debunk-clericalism
More coverage of Benedict's trip to Mexico and Cuba
- Cuban dissidents attend Mass, hold protest, day before pope's arrival, March 25
- Pope greets Mexicans affected by notorious crimes,March 25
- Trust in God to help change society, pope says in Mexico's heartland,March 25
- Book released as Pope arrives in Mexcio says: Ratzinger altered canon law to soften Maciel punishment, by Jason Berry March 24
- Pope arrives in Mexico as 'pilgrim of faith, of hope, and of love',March 23
- Waiting for the pope: Vatican flags, human wall -- and hope for peace,March 23
- Pope Benedict XVI's visit to Cuba benefits both Vatican and the Castros, March 23
- Pope tells Cubans to look beyond Marxism, March 23
- The pope in Mexico and Cuba, John Allen's weekly column. March 23
- Pope to find mixed political messages in Mexico trip, March 22
Comments:
B16's "gentle debunking" of
Submitted by Jim Jenkins (not verified) on Mar. 30, 2012.
B16's "gentle debunking" of clericalism was SO gentle that only sycophants could detect it.
It is hard to believe that Ratzinger could rise to the chair of St. Peter without the support of the Roman traditional "clericalists." Ratzinger himself has proved in his career to be one of the most successful players of the clerical game!
How can Ratzinger now turn his back on them so easily? How can Ratzinger now eschew clericalism when it is considered subversive among the Vatican curia which engineered his own election to the papacy?
John Allen is intoxicated on that Roman Kool-Aid, again.
John, you have been learning
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Mar. 30, 2012.
John, you have been learning "Vatican
Please forward to Cardinal
Submitted by Chuck Radloff (not verified) on Mar. 30, 2012.
Please forward to Cardinal Dolan, New York City
clergy (Cardinal Dolan) not to be running around as a politician in a cassock,like he did to shove aside Bishop Kicanas to become President of the USCCB...and throwing 550 sexual abuse claims in Milwaukee under the bus by playing around with Church assets.
clergy (Cardinal Dolan) not to be running around as a politician in a cassock,like he did to shove aside Bishop Kicanas to become President of the USCCB...and throwing 550 sexual abuse claims in Milwaukee under the bus by playing around with Church assets.
So B16 doesn't want the laity
Submitted by Joseph Jaglowicz (not verified) on Mar. 30, 2012.
So B16 doesn't want the laity treated as "second-class citizens" in the Church???
Tell THAT to the JPII cookie-cutter clergy who were/are attracted to *priestly* ordination by the example of our late autocratic pontiff. These are the guys, after all, who believe their (presbyteral) ordinations conferred on them an "ontological superiority" over the laity, the guys who believe they have of particular right the final word in matters of parish life and governance.
These "JPII priests" are described in James Davidson & Dean Hoge's "Mind the gap: the return of the lay-clerical divide", originally published in COMMONWEAL and now available free at the "findarticles" website. According to these respected sociologists of religion, we can expect to witness the "greatest expectation gap" in a decade or so between these bossy clergy, on the one hand, and a better educated and informed laity (older & younger), on the other hand. Not a good prognosis for a healthy church.
And who aided and abetted JPII in promoting this kind of "priestly" outlook?
B16!!!
Please, get real. The pope
Submitted by John Mack (not verified) on Mar. 30, 2012.
Please, get real. The pope has urged the American bishops on inn their political rampage. So what does that do to the fact that the Pope is rebuking "Clergy see themselves as political powerbrokers, playing a direct role in affairs of state."
Clericalism leads to right wing religious politics, as in the US
I am sure it was a very, very
Submitted by Peter A Bishop (not verified) on Mar. 30, 2012.
I am sure it was a very, very gentle and almost non-existant rebuke of clericalism because the curia will allow no change in it. The Roman Curia will not allow anything to threaten their hallowed positions as princes in power. Clericalism spurred on by celibacy is what allowed the sexual abuse of children to continue for centuriees unchecked. Until celibacy is optional there will be no change in clericalism. Celibacy in the mind's of the curia is more important than the priesthood, the Eucharist or the sacraments. Of course, more drastic changes are needed for a renewal of the priesthood and the church. Bishop Goeffrey Robinson called for some of them recently as was reported in NCR.
News updates June 19, 2012
ROME
National Catholic Reporter
ROME
National Catholic Reporter
ROME
News updates June 19, 2012
June 18, 2012
National Catholic Reporter
by John L Allen Jr on Jun. 18, 2012 NCR Today
ROME -- On the Vatican leaks front, the figure widely presumed to be the major target of the scandal, Italian Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, has accused journalists covering the story of “playing at the imitation of Dan Brown,” inventing "fables and legends," but insisted that he has “the real church” on his side.
Bertone, theVatican
Bertone spoke in an interview with Famiglia Christiana, a widely read newsweekly inItaly
“The publication of a multiplicity of letters and documents sent to the Holy Father by persons who have a right to privacy constitutes, as we have affirmed several times, an immoral act of unprecedented gravity,” Bertone said.
Bertone, the
Bertone spoke in an interview with Famiglia Christiana, a widely read newsweekly in
“The publication of a multiplicity of letters and documents sent to the Holy Father by persons who have a right to privacy constitutes, as we have affirmed several times, an immoral act of unprecedented gravity,” Bertone said.
National Catholic Reporter
by John L Allen Jr on Jun. 18, 2012 NCR Today
Thus whenever I get the “next pope” question, I try to stay tethered to reality, not floating long-shots that might excite one constituency or another, but pointing to figures who seem to have the best chance of actually being elected.
The problem is that when it comes to the essentially unknowable, it’s tough to be confident about what “reality” actually is. There are no polls, no fundraising reports, no ad buys, nothing empirical other than “buzz” to separate serious contenders from the crowd. Recent history suggests that sometimes those perceived front-runners come through, as in Paul VI and Benedict XVI, but other times dark horses emerge, as in John XXIII and John Paul II.
This is by way of introducing a new papal candidate, who I freely confess has not been featured in any of the latest round-ups of contenders (including my own), and someone who would probably be an afterthought in most conversations inRome
(For the record, there's no sign of a health crisis around Benedict which would suggest a transition is imminent. It's just that with an 85-year-old pope, the question can't help but come up.)
The problem is that when it comes to the essentially unknowable, it’s tough to be confident about what “reality” actually is. There are no polls, no fundraising reports, no ad buys, nothing empirical other than “buzz” to separate serious contenders from the crowd. Recent history suggests that sometimes those perceived front-runners come through, as in Paul VI and Benedict XVI, but other times dark horses emerge, as in John XXIII and John Paul II.
This is by way of introducing a new papal candidate, who I freely confess has not been featured in any of the latest round-ups of contenders (including my own), and someone who would probably be an afterthought in most conversations in
(For the record, there's no sign of a health crisis around Benedict which would suggest a transition is imminent. It's just that with an 85-year-old pope, the question can't help but come up.)
==============
Update article for August 24, 2012
Vatican's greatest Pied Piper liar John Allen is at it again entertaining 1.2 Billion Catholics with more lies because he proves himself time and againt that he smarter than the Father of Lies Satan in the Garden of Eden. Here in his article today, "Taking its medicine does the Vatican some good" (see article below) he makes Catholic feel-good about the corrupt Evil Vatican Bank that bought the soul of the Oregon judge who decreed that the Vatican is not the employer of priests, one of the biggest lies at the dawn of the 21st century. May God hasten the total demise of the Vatican as predicted by the Third Secret of Fatima that foretold that "not one pillar of St. Peter's Square and not one rubble of the Vatican will be left standing just like the Temple of Solomon" because God cannot stand the sight of the Opus Dei Golden Cow John Paul II (hugging Mary) as the fastest tracking saint... read our latest article
The narcissism and grandiosity of John Paul II, Cardinal Bernard Law, Benedict XVI, and Bishop Roger Vangheluwe are nauseating and despicable
Taking its medicine does the Vatican some good
VATICAN CITY
National Catholic Reporter
by John L Allen Jr on Aug. 24, 2012 All Things Catholic
"Be careful what you wish for," as the saying goes, "because you will surely get it." In light of a couple of recent Vatican stories, the corollary also seems to apply: Be careful what you try to avoid, because it might actually be good for you.
A stringent European money laundering exam in July and a federal court ruling in Oregon this week both make the point.
Earlier this year, the Vatican faced secular scrutiny of its financial operations for the first time with a review by Moneyval, Europe's anti-money-laundering agency. The Vatican submitted voluntarily, a somewhat surprising choice given its long history of fighting off such perceived incursions on its autonomy tooth and nail. The truth, however, is it didn't have much choice. If the Vatican is perceived as a suspect financial player, it risks higher transaction costs and being shut out of important markets.
July's verdict was a mixed bag, raising questions such as whether regulation of the Vatican Bank is sufficiently strong. Yet on the whole, Moneyval concluded the Vatican "has come a long way in a very short period of time" toward transparency, and "there is no empirical evidence of corruption."
Those findings undercut conspiracy theories about Vatican finances, and, to some extent, they also offset perceptions of Benedict XVI's papacy as an administrative train wreck.
Taking its medicine, in other words, did the Vatican some good.
Something similar happened Monday, with a ruling in a federal district court in Oregon on a sex abuse lawsuit. In a nutshell, the judge held that the Vatican is not the "employer" of Catholic priests and dismissed it from the case.
Judge Michael Mosman compared policies for priests set in Rome to the sort of control a state bar association wields over lawyers -- important, sure, but not tantamount to an employer/employee relationship.
Before explaining why that experience was healthy, too, a bit of background.
The Oregon case
The ruling Monday came in the case of John Doe v. Holy See, filed in 2002 on behalf of a man allegedly abused in 1965-66 by a onetime Irish Servite priest named Andrew Ronan, who was laicized in 1966 and who died in 1992.
Correspondence released in the case shows that Ronan was transferred to the United States in 1959 in the wake of admitting to homosexual contact with seminarians at a Servite priory in Benburb, Ireland. He arrived first in Chicago, moving to Portland, Ore., in 1965 as a retreat director. The lawsuit named the Vatican, the archdioceses of Chicago and Portland, and the Servites as defendants, asserting that policies of secrecy put the alleged victim in harm's way. Since the two archdioceses were already dropped, the new ruling leaves only the religious order.
As in other instances in which it's been sued in American courts, the Vatican fought back tenaciously.
In 2009, the Vatican asked the U.S. Supreme Court to dismiss it from the case on the grounds of sovereign immunity, drawing support from the Obama administration in the form of a brief jointly signed by the Office of the Solicitor General, the attorney general and the State Department. In June 2010, however, the Supreme Court declined to hear the case, sending it back to Oregon.
(As a footnote, the Oregon case thus produced a rather juicy irony: The allegedly anti-Catholic Obama administration stood with the Vatican, while all those Catholic justices on the Supreme Court didn't give Rome what it wanted.)
In August 2011, the Vatican released what it claimed were all the documents about Ronan in its possession. They included a 1953 note of permission for Ronan to serve as a novice master despite being below the age then established in church law as well as several documents related to his 1966 laicization. Among them is a February 1966 letter from Ronan, acknowledging "my repeated, admitted, documented homosexual tendencies and acts against the vow of chastity and celibacy."
Notably, there was no document suggesting the Vatican approved, or even knew about, Ronan's 1959 transfer. Vatican lawyers say the paper trail proves the Vatican didn't become aware of Ronan's problems until 1966 and laicized him within weeks.
This chain of events culminated in Mosman's ruling Monday, which was read aloud by the judge from the bench.
How it helps
While the Vatican never wanted things to go this far, perhaps it ought to be glad they did.
First of all, the Vatican has always made sovereign immunity its first line of defense in sex abuse litigation. Given public outrage over the scandals, however, it was inevitable that, sooner or later, it would have to take a stand on the merits.
Technically, the Aug. 20 ruling was still focused on immunity. One of the few exceptions to the 1976 Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act is if a foreign state acts as an employer in America. By finding that the Vatican doesn't employ priests, the judge effectively held that its immunity still applies.
Nevertheless, the ruling cut closer than any previous case to the substantive issue of whether the Vatican was actually responsible for supervising abuser priests, and it's probably healthy to face that question head-on.
For Catholics everywhere, there's a broader take-away.
Insiders have long been frustrated with perceptions that the church is rigidly centralized and tightly controlled from the top. In truth, Catholicism is top-down only on faith and morals. In terms of administration, it's mostly horizontal, with key calls on personnel and finance made by diocesan bishops. On most everything else, such as new spiritual initiatives, new intellectual vision, and new pastoral and apostolic models, it's largely bottom-up.
While that might be reality, Catholics haven't had much luck communicating it, so the myth endures that nothing happens without somebody in Rome flipping a switch.
Now, however, we have an American judge with no dog in Catholic fights -- for the record, Mosman is a Mormon -- who took an objective look at the relationship between the Vatican and Catholic priests and concluded that the Vatican isn't their boss.
In a flash, Mosman might have done more to explain Catholic ecclesiology to the outside world than a whole rafter of paid church spokespersons has accomplished since, well, the dawn of time.
In terms of church politics, the ruling could also act as a firebreak against attempted micro-management from Rome. In the future, if somebody in the Vatican tries to push a priest around, he'd be well advised to reply: "Didn't you guys swear to an American judge that I don't work for you?"
In some ways, it's too bad other cases raising similar questions haven't moved further down the pipeline.
For instance, a lawsuit filed in Kentucky in 2004 charged that Catholic bishops, rather than priests, are "agents" or "employees" of the Vatican. In response, Vatican lawyers filed two lengthy memoranda from canonist Edward Peters of Sacred Heart Seminary in Detroit, forcefully defending the autonomy of the local bishop. To assert that bishops are no more than Vatican employees is "contrary to basic principles underlying the structure of the church," Peters wrote.
The judge was never forced to rule because in 2010, the plaintiff's lawyers abandoned the case. It would have been fascinating to see what he made of Peters' argument.
The Vatican's undesired teaching moment may not be over yet, since the plaintiff's lawyer in Oregon, Jeffrey Anderson, has vowed to appeal. No doubt, the Vatican will once again try to fight it off.
As with Moneyval and Mosman's ruling, however, the Vatican may find that sometimes developments you worry about the most also give you the most help.
[John L. Allen Jr. is NCR senior correspondent. His email address is jallen@ncronline.org.]
COMMENTS
National Catholic Reporter
by John L Allen Jr on Aug. 24, 2012 All Things Catholic
"Be careful what you wish for," as the saying goes, "because you will surely get it." In light of a couple of recent Vatican stories, the corollary also seems to apply: Be careful what you try to avoid, because it might actually be good for you.
A stringent European money laundering exam in July and a federal court ruling in Oregon this week both make the point.
Earlier this year, the Vatican faced secular scrutiny of its financial operations for the first time with a review by Moneyval, Europe's anti-money-laundering agency. The Vatican submitted voluntarily, a somewhat surprising choice given its long history of fighting off such perceived incursions on its autonomy tooth and nail. The truth, however, is it didn't have much choice. If the Vatican is perceived as a suspect financial player, it risks higher transaction costs and being shut out of important markets.
July's verdict was a mixed bag, raising questions such as whether regulation of the Vatican Bank is sufficiently strong. Yet on the whole, Moneyval concluded the Vatican "has come a long way in a very short period of time" toward transparency, and "there is no empirical evidence of corruption."
Those findings undercut conspiracy theories about Vatican finances, and, to some extent, they also offset perceptions of Benedict XVI's papacy as an administrative train wreck.
Taking its medicine, in other words, did the Vatican some good.
Something similar happened Monday, with a ruling in a federal district court in Oregon on a sex abuse lawsuit. In a nutshell, the judge held that the Vatican is not the "employer" of Catholic priests and dismissed it from the case.
Judge Michael Mosman compared policies for priests set in Rome to the sort of control a state bar association wields over lawyers -- important, sure, but not tantamount to an employer/employee relationship.
Before explaining why that experience was healthy, too, a bit of background.
The Oregon case
The ruling Monday came in the case of John Doe v. Holy See, filed in 2002 on behalf of a man allegedly abused in 1965-66 by a onetime Irish Servite priest named Andrew Ronan, who was laicized in 1966 and who died in 1992.
Correspondence released in the case shows that Ronan was transferred to the United States in 1959 in the wake of admitting to homosexual contact with seminarians at a Servite priory in Benburb, Ireland. He arrived first in Chicago, moving to Portland, Ore., in 1965 as a retreat director. The lawsuit named the Vatican, the archdioceses of Chicago and Portland, and the Servites as defendants, asserting that policies of secrecy put the alleged victim in harm's way. Since the two archdioceses were already dropped, the new ruling leaves only the religious order.
In 2009, the Vatican asked the U.S. Supreme Court to dismiss it from the case on the grounds of sovereign immunity, drawing support from the Obama administration in the form of a brief jointly signed by the Office of the Solicitor General, the attorney general and the State Department. In June 2010, however, the Supreme Court declined to hear the case, sending it back to Oregon.
(As a footnote, the Oregon case thus produced a rather juicy irony: The allegedly anti-Catholic Obama administration stood with the Vatican, while all those Catholic justices on the Supreme Court didn't give Rome what it wanted.)
In August 2011, the Vatican released what it claimed were all the documents about Ronan in its possession. They included a 1953 note of permission for Ronan to serve as a novice master despite being below the age then established in church law as well as several documents related to his 1966 laicization. Among them is a February 1966 letter from Ronan, acknowledging "my repeated, admitted, documented homosexual tendencies and acts against the vow of chastity and celibacy."
Notably, there was no document suggesting the Vatican approved, or even knew about, Ronan's 1959 transfer. Vatican lawyers say the paper trail proves the Vatican didn't become aware of Ronan's problems until 1966 and laicized him within weeks.
This chain of events culminated in Mosman's ruling Monday, which was read aloud by the judge from the bench.
How it helps
While the Vatican never wanted things to go this far, perhaps it ought to be glad they did.
First of all, the Vatican has always made sovereign immunity its first line of defense in sex abuse litigation. Given public outrage over the scandals, however, it was inevitable that, sooner or later, it would have to take a stand on the merits.
Technically, the Aug. 20 ruling was still focused on immunity. One of the few exceptions to the 1976 Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act is if a foreign state acts as an employer in America. By finding that the Vatican doesn't employ priests, the judge effectively held that its immunity still applies.
Nevertheless, the ruling cut closer than any previous case to the substantive issue of whether the Vatican was actually responsible for supervising abuser priests, and it's probably healthy to face that question head-on.
For Catholics everywhere, there's a broader take-away.
Insiders have long been frustrated with perceptions that the church is rigidly centralized and tightly controlled from the top. In truth, Catholicism is top-down only on faith and morals. In terms of administration, it's mostly horizontal, with key calls on personnel and finance made by diocesan bishops. On most everything else, such as new spiritual initiatives, new intellectual vision, and new pastoral and apostolic models, it's largely bottom-up.
While that might be reality, Catholics haven't had much luck communicating it, so the myth endures that nothing happens without somebody in Rome flipping a switch.
Now, however, we have an American judge with no dog in Catholic fights -- for the record, Mosman is a Mormon -- who took an objective look at the relationship between the Vatican and Catholic priests and concluded that the Vatican isn't their boss.
In a flash, Mosman might have done more to explain Catholic ecclesiology to the outside world than a whole rafter of paid church spokespersons has accomplished since, well, the dawn of time.
In terms of church politics, the ruling could also act as a firebreak against attempted micro-management from Rome. In the future, if somebody in the Vatican tries to push a priest around, he'd be well advised to reply: "Didn't you guys swear to an American judge that I don't work for you?"
In some ways, it's too bad other cases raising similar questions haven't moved further down the pipeline.
For instance, a lawsuit filed in Kentucky in 2004 charged that Catholic bishops, rather than priests, are "agents" or "employees" of the Vatican. In response, Vatican lawyers filed two lengthy memoranda from canonist Edward Peters of Sacred Heart Seminary in Detroit, forcefully defending the autonomy of the local bishop. To assert that bishops are no more than Vatican employees is "contrary to basic principles underlying the structure of the church," Peters wrote.
The judge was never forced to rule because in 2010, the plaintiff's lawyers abandoned the case. It would have been fascinating to see what he made of Peters' argument.
The Vatican's undesired teaching moment may not be over yet, since the plaintiff's lawyer in Oregon, Jeffrey Anderson, has vowed to appeal. No doubt, the Vatican will once again try to fight it off.
As with Moneyval and Mosman's ruling, however, the Vatican may find that sometimes developments you worry about the most also give you the most help.
[John L. Allen Jr. is NCR senior correspondent. His email address is jallen@ncronline.org.]
COMMENTS
TRUST, BUT VERIFY
Submitted by Jerry Slevin (not verified) on Aug. 24, 2012.
TRUST, BUT VERIFY ............ John Allen lets us know what the Vatican wants us to think. He also lets us know what the latest papal delusions are. If you read between the lines, he can be helpful in a world where papal disassembling is a time honored art form.
For example, John has told us that these minor tactical gains in a devasting legal war are perceived as major victories by the pope's new Fox News-dominated and delusional spin machine.
Really? Is it not clear to anyone with even a superficial knowledge of the legal process that the Vatican's secrecy dam is leaking badly. It is likely only a matter of a short time before it bursts completely.
Moreover, the new female prosecutor at the International Criminal Court must be nearing completion of her active, year old review of the criminal charges for crimes against humanity (mainly children) filed against the pope and Cardinals Levada, Bertone and Sodano.
Closer to home, this negative trend is no more evident than in Philly where, following the recent criminal conviction for child endangerment of Msgr. Lynn in an overwhelmingly revealing trial, the abuse survivors' lawyers appear to be moving up the Philly chain of command to bishops Cullen and Cistone. And Cardinal Rigali, Cardinal Dolan's mentor, is likely next. The civil suits will likely press Philly's ambitious DA, Seth Williams, finally to go after the hierarchical ringleaders.
Rigali, who for eight years oversaw the Philly priest pedophile paradise until last year before the pope in effect had to sack him, spent decades in the Vatican and is more significant as a criminal target than even Boston's notorious and prominent fugitive, Cardinal Law.
Most importantly, what did the pope know of the Philly priests' crimes against numerous Philly children, when did he know it and what did he do about it, including during his time a Cardinal in charge of the worldwide abuse cover-up.
So much for John Allen's "happy talk"!
For more on the bigger picture that John Allen so predictably avoids, please read "Philly DA Must Go Higher", accessible by clicking on at:
http://www.bilgrimage.blogspot.com/2012/07/gerald-t-slevin-philly-da-mus...
For example, John has told us that these minor tactical gains in a devasting legal war are perceived as major victories by the pope's new Fox News-dominated and delusional spin machine.
Really? Is it not clear to anyone with even a superficial knowledge of the legal process that the Vatican's secrecy dam is leaking badly. It is likely only a matter of a short time before it bursts completely.
Moreover, the new female prosecutor at the International Criminal Court must be nearing completion of her active, year old review of the criminal charges for crimes against humanity (mainly children) filed against the pope and Cardinals Levada, Bertone and Sodano.
Closer to home, this negative trend is no more evident than in Philly where, following the recent criminal conviction for child endangerment of Msgr. Lynn in an overwhelmingly revealing trial, the abuse survivors' lawyers appear to be moving up the Philly chain of command to bishops Cullen and Cistone. And Cardinal Rigali, Cardinal Dolan's mentor, is likely next. The civil suits will likely press Philly's ambitious DA, Seth Williams, finally to go after the hierarchical ringleaders.
Rigali, who for eight years oversaw the Philly priest pedophile paradise until last year before the pope in effect had to sack him, spent decades in the Vatican and is more significant as a criminal target than even Boston's notorious and prominent fugitive, Cardinal Law.
Most importantly, what did the pope know of the Philly priests' crimes against numerous Philly children, when did he know it and what did he do about it, including during his time a Cardinal in charge of the worldwide abuse cover-up.
So much for John Allen's "happy talk"!
For more on the bigger picture that John Allen so predictably avoids, please read "Philly DA Must Go Higher", accessible by clicking on at:
http://www.bilgrimage.blogspot.com/2012/07/gerald-t-slevin-philly-da-mus...
You are making a judgment
Submitted by Bill G (not verified) on Aug. 24, 2012.
You are making a judgment about Mr. Allen. It appears that if you don't *trust* him, he is lying. Can you be more specific instead of trying to damage his reputation as a journalist?
My word association with
Submitted by Kevin (not verified) on Aug. 24, 2012.
My word association with "John Allen" for some time has been "access". He gets the access he does by writing favorably - or not too unfavorably - about everyone and everything Church related.
With an organization and people who are concerned about orthodoxy, conformity, status, privacy, etc. John writes for the interview he's currently writing but - importantly - to get the next interview and the one after that. Ask yourself - what does this do to Allen's honesty and transparency?
Join me is reading Allen's columns through the "access" prism.
Kevin
With an organization and people who are concerned about orthodoxy, conformity, status, privacy, etc. John writes for the interview he's currently writing but - importantly - to get the next interview and the one after that. Ask yourself - what does this do to Allen's honesty and transparency?
Join me is reading Allen's columns through the "access" prism.
Kevin
I do not understand how a
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Aug. 24, 2012.
I do not understand how a priest can be under obedience to the Church and yet not employed by the Church. OK, let's say he is voluntarily obedient then if he disobeys the Church his parish cannot be taken from him, because they do not employ him. The parishioners pay him, I know that, so therefore they are employing him on a self-employed basis, like a plumber. So the Church is like a plumbers' association, if he disagrees with the hierarchy then provided his employers, the parish, support him, the Church can do nothing about it.
Very interesting indeed.
Very interesting indeed.
An incredible insight....Free
Submitted by Dee (not verified) on Aug. 24, 2012.
An incredible insight....Free at last, thank God we're free at last!! (Another stupid "Pray, Pay, Obey Catholic cheering for the Devil's Twin John Allen)
Quoted from the article:
"Now, however, we have an American judge with no dog in Catholic fights -- for the record, Mosman is a Mormon -- who took an objective look at the relationship between the Vatican and Catholic priests and concluded that the Vatican isn't their boss.
In terms of church politics, the ruling could also act as a firebreak against attempted micro-management from Rome. In the future, if somebody in the Vatican tries to push a priest around, he'd be well advised to reply: "Didn't you guys swear to an American judge that I don't work for you?"
Quoted from the article:
"Now, however, we have an American judge with no dog in Catholic fights -- for the record, Mosman is a Mormon -- who took an objective look at the relationship between the Vatican and Catholic priests and concluded that the Vatican isn't their boss.
In terms of church politics, the ruling could also act as a firebreak against attempted micro-management from Rome. In the future, if somebody in the Vatican tries to push a priest around, he'd be well advised to reply: "Didn't you guys swear to an American judge that I don't work for you?"
- reply Mitt Romney is also Mormon and he got Cardinal Dolan to pray at his convention -- So God sent Isaac the Hurricane to disrupt their religious lies. This Oregon judge sold his soul to the evil Vatican Billions read more here
your comment made me wonder
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Aug. 24, 2012.
your comment made me wonder how this judge's ruling could affect the vatican's latest crackdown on the sisters of the country
In all due respect John, I
Submitted by Curtis L Biggar Architect (not verified) on Aug. 24, 2012.
In all due respect John, I take issue with your quote:
"On most everything else, such as new spiritual initiatives, new intellectual vision, and new pastoral and apostolic models, it's largely bottom-up."
Lumen Gentium called for recognition & encouragement (ch 37) of the laity by the bishops. I think it seldom has ever happened.
Over the years,I have suggested:
*After mass dialogues called "synagogue sunday's at which laity & priests or deacon's can discuss the readings of the day & get their perspective on the "word"
*A diary or record of answers to their prayers of the faithful from members of our parish
*At least one celebration each year for those with significant anniversaries
*Laity sharing homily with the priest or deacon at mothers day, fathers day etc.
These and many other initiatives are dismissed by our pastor who is typical of many of today's Priests who fear their bishop & cannot understand the relationship between authority & creativity.
The lack of respect for Vatican II by Rome & the hierarchy has led to decline in attendance at masses & loss of enthusiasm in our youth. Where are some examples?
Curt
"On most everything else, such as new spiritual initiatives, new intellectual vision, and new pastoral and apostolic models, it's largely bottom-up."
Lumen Gentium called for recognition & encouragement (ch 37) of the laity by the bishops. I think it seldom has ever happened.
Over the years,I have suggested:
*After mass dialogues called "synagogue sunday's at which laity & priests or deacon's can discuss the readings of the day & get their perspective on the "word"
*A diary or record of answers to their prayers of the faithful from members of our parish
*At least one celebration each year for those with significant anniversaries
*Laity sharing homily with the priest or deacon at mothers day, fathers day etc.
These and many other initiatives are dismissed by our pastor who is typical of many of today's Priests who fear their bishop & cannot understand the relationship between authority & creativity.
The lack of respect for Vatican II by Rome & the hierarchy has led to decline in attendance at masses & loss of enthusiasm in our youth. Where are some examples?
Curt
BENEDICT XVI vs. BARACK (Another stupid "Pray, Pay, Obey Catholic cheering for the Devil's Twin John Allen adn Opus Dei Golden Cow Benedict XVI read http://jp2m.blogspot.ca/2011/04/narcissism-and-grandiosity-of-john-paul.html )
Submitted by Alex (not verified) on Aug. 24, 2012.
BENEDICT XVI vs. BARACK OBAMA
In his Aug. 23 column, “Taking its medicine does the Vatican some good,” John Allen states that the findings of Moneyval, Europe's anti-money-laundering agency, “undercut conspiracy theories about Vatican finances, and, to some extent, they also offset perceptions of Benedict XVI's papacy as an administrative train wreck.”
I hope this evaluation puts to rest that favorite Catholic liberal canard that Pope Benedict is an unmitigated disaster for the administration of the Holy See. If you really want to see an administrative train wreck, contemplate for a moment the financial disaster President Barack Obama has wreaked upon the most powerful nation on God’s green earth, the United States of America. You want to see scandals of all sorts, lack of financial transparency, usurpation of power, crony capitalism, etc.? Go to Washington, D.C. Compared to Barack Obama’s administration, Pope Benedict’s administration of the Holy See is a sterling example of honesty, fairness, firmness and transparency.
In his Aug. 23 column, “Taking its medicine does the Vatican some good,” John Allen states that the findings of Moneyval, Europe's anti-money-laundering agency, “undercut conspiracy theories about Vatican finances, and, to some extent, they also offset perceptions of Benedict XVI's papacy as an administrative train wreck.”
I hope this evaluation puts to rest that favorite Catholic liberal canard that Pope Benedict is an unmitigated disaster for the administration of the Holy See. If you really want to see an administrative train wreck, contemplate for a moment the financial disaster President Barack Obama has wreaked upon the most powerful nation on God’s green earth, the United States of America. You want to see scandals of all sorts, lack of financial transparency, usurpation of power, crony capitalism, etc.? Go to Washington, D.C. Compared to Barack Obama’s administration, Pope Benedict’s administration of the Holy See is a sterling example of honesty, fairness, firmness and transparency.
Alex Dear, How can you attack
Submitted by JR (not verified) on Aug. 24, 2012.
Alex Dear,
How can you attack our beloved President who is the best this country has had in a century?
JR
How can you attack our beloved President who is the best this country has had in a century?
JR
Dear JR (Ewing?) I agree with
Submitted by Bill Mosca (not verified) on Aug. 24, 2012.
Dear JR (Ewing?)
I agree with you that Alex Dear's comments about President Obama were uncalled for and a tad uncivil. I also agree with you that our "beloved President" is the best the country has had in a century with the possible exception of FDR, HST, Ike, JFK, LBJ, Ronald Regan, Bush I, and Bill Clinton. Whether he will be judged "better" than Taft, Wilson, Harding, Coolidge, Hoover and Bush II will be a matter for history to decide.
-- Bill
I agree with you that Alex Dear's comments about President Obama were uncalled for and a tad uncivil. I also agree with you that our "beloved President" is the best the country has had in a century with the possible exception of FDR, HST, Ike, JFK, LBJ, Ronald Regan, Bush I, and Bill Clinton. Whether he will be judged "better" than Taft, Wilson, Harding, Coolidge, Hoover and Bush II will be a matter for history to decide.
-- Bill
Once upon a time, and perhaps
Submitted by Petrus Romanus (not verified) on Aug. 24, 2012.
Once upon a time, and perhaps in a fairyland far away, sovereign immunity might have been a complete defense to liability for clerical sexual abuse. We now know that at least one judge on this planet still thinks so.
These days, even among good, pay-as-you-go Catholics, sovereign immunity leaves a foul taste on the palate, and then some. Surely you recall the recently concluded jury trial of Philadelphia's Monsignor William J Lynn, who pleaded in his defense against child engangerment charges: "I vas only following orders." That claim did not fly with the jury, it did not fly with the judge, and it doesn't even hold water with the public any more.
Sovereign immunity is decreasingly a credible defense against such claims as intentional torts, or claims arising out of circumstances over which the defendant had substantial control, which in the Oregon case approaches plenary control. And while the Holy See may be a "nation" for some purposes and thus enjoy sovereign immunity for some purposes, the Holy See also functions as an international religious corporation, which typically is not even entitled to sovereign immunity as a shield for its own maladministration.
Judge Mosman's decision in this case has reportedly been appealed to the Ninth Circuit, which means that the judge may be overturned, in whole or in part. Either reversal or affirmation might prompt a further appeal to SCOTUS, giving the five male Catholic justices an opportunity to weigh in on a case touching upon their church and their state(s), and judge the judge of the trial court on his view that "no evidence" exists of an employment relationship.
Whatever. If the current pope and Roman curia have learned anything from this judicial exposure, it's how better to cover their tracks and avoid the courts, all the while conducting their worldwide cover-up business as usual. That may look good on the balance sheets, but it's neither acceptable corporate conduct, nor adequate pastoral ministry based on the Gospel of Jesus of Nazareth. As long as the Holy See chooses not to be responsible (liable) for the evils it has perpetrated through its errant clergy, it chooses the path of self destruction.
These days, even among good, pay-as-you-go Catholics, sovereign immunity leaves a foul taste on the palate, and then some. Surely you recall the recently concluded jury trial of Philadelphia's Monsignor William J Lynn, who pleaded in his defense against child engangerment charges: "I vas only following orders." That claim did not fly with the jury, it did not fly with the judge, and it doesn't even hold water with the public any more.
Sovereign immunity is decreasingly a credible defense against such claims as intentional torts, or claims arising out of circumstances over which the defendant had substantial control, which in the Oregon case approaches plenary control. And while the Holy See may be a "nation" for some purposes and thus enjoy sovereign immunity for some purposes, the Holy See also functions as an international religious corporation, which typically is not even entitled to sovereign immunity as a shield for its own maladministration.
Judge Mosman's decision in this case has reportedly been appealed to the Ninth Circuit, which means that the judge may be overturned, in whole or in part. Either reversal or affirmation might prompt a further appeal to SCOTUS, giving the five male Catholic justices an opportunity to weigh in on a case touching upon their church and their state(s), and judge the judge of the trial court on his view that "no evidence" exists of an employment relationship.
Whatever. If the current pope and Roman curia have learned anything from this judicial exposure, it's how better to cover their tracks and avoid the courts, all the while conducting their worldwide cover-up business as usual. That may look good on the balance sheets, but it's neither acceptable corporate conduct, nor adequate pastoral ministry based on the Gospel of Jesus of Nazareth. As long as the Holy See chooses not to be responsible (liable) for the evils it has perpetrated through its errant clergy, it chooses the path of self destruction.
So sisters are free from the
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Aug. 24, 2012.
So sisters are free from the Inquisitiional eyes too!! In your dreams!9
I am sure appeals are
Submitted by Michael Bindner (not verified) on Aug. 24, 2012.
I am sure appeals are forthcoming.
The principle of subsidiarity
Submitted by Sylvia R. (not verified) on Aug. 24, 2012.
The principle of subsidiarity is what John L. Allen is pointing to, and in fact this could be a sign of hope:
"Insiders have long been frustrated with perceptions that the church is rigidly centralized and tightly controlled from the top. In truth, Catholicism is top-down only on faith and morals. In terms of administration, it's mostly horizontal, with key calls on personnel and finance made by diocesan bishops..."
The key to overturning corruption, propaganda and manipulation may be lay pressure at the diocesan and regional level. For example, when numerous cases of clergy sex abuse were revealed in the Canadian province of Newfoundland in the late 1980's, pressure built up from the open hearings and news coverage that revealed a pattern of interlinked incompetency and cover-ups in the justice department, the child welfare department and the church. The traditionally Catholic, largely Irish immigrant people of Newfoundland were astonished and outraged. One result was that Archbishop Penney had to resign (and no he didn't get a plum post in Rome.)
In other words, let's not waste our anger on the distant oligarchy in Rome. Let's put the pressure where the local news media can cover it.
"Insiders have long been frustrated with perceptions that the church is rigidly centralized and tightly controlled from the top. In truth, Catholicism is top-down only on faith and morals. In terms of administration, it's mostly horizontal, with key calls on personnel and finance made by diocesan bishops..."
The key to overturning corruption, propaganda and manipulation may be lay pressure at the diocesan and regional level. For example, when numerous cases of clergy sex abuse were revealed in the Canadian province of Newfoundland in the late 1980's, pressure built up from the open hearings and news coverage that revealed a pattern of interlinked incompetency and cover-ups in the justice department, the child welfare department and the church. The traditionally Catholic, largely Irish immigrant people of Newfoundland were astonished and outraged. One result was that Archbishop Penney had to resign (and no he didn't get a plum post in Rome.)
In other words, let's not waste our anger on the distant oligarchy in Rome. Let's put the pressure where the local news media can cover it.
I wonder if Romney has any
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Aug. 24, 2012.
I wonder if Romney has any money hidden in the Vatican Bank.
Mr. Romney doesn’t trust the
Submitted by Manuel (not verified) on Aug. 24, 2012.
Mr. Romney doesn’t trust the Vatican Bank.
He has better options:
“Once again, the spotlight turns back onto Romney's association with Bain Capital, since each of the 21 institutions detailed by Gawker are affiliated with Bain. And once again Mitt Romney's taxes become an issue, since many of these are located in the Cayman Islands, a place associated for good or ill with tax avoidance.
Not that anyone is suggesting Mitt Romney has done anything wrong. As the Republican candidate himself repeatedly says: "I paid the taxes required under the law." It's just that the vast majority of Americans don't get the opportunity to invest in Cayman Islands-domiciled funds, whatever the law may say.
There's a lot to get through in these documents, and who can say what might be revealed? And yet, as is the style of American journalists, a few US writers have taken to emitting theatrical yawns, most spectacularly a reporter for a magazine called Fortune named Dan Primack, who declared: "There is nothing in there that will inform your opinion of Mitt Romney. How do I know? Because I saw many of the exact same documents months ago, after requesting them from a Bain Capital investor. What I quickly learned [was] that there was little of interest…"
Beauty and news being in the eye of the beholder, we can judge for ourselves, and in fact Primack – a contender for some sort of "reverse Pulitzer" for non-investigative journalism – is flat wrong. There are at least a few things that may indeed "inform" opinions of Mitt Romney.”
To know more:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/richard-adams-blog/2012/aug/23/mitt-romn...
He has better options:
“Once again, the spotlight turns back onto Romney's association with Bain Capital, since each of the 21 institutions detailed by Gawker are affiliated with Bain. And once again Mitt Romney's taxes become an issue, since many of these are located in the Cayman Islands, a place associated for good or ill with tax avoidance.
Not that anyone is suggesting Mitt Romney has done anything wrong. As the Republican candidate himself repeatedly says: "I paid the taxes required under the law." It's just that the vast majority of Americans don't get the opportunity to invest in Cayman Islands-domiciled funds, whatever the law may say.
There's a lot to get through in these documents, and who can say what might be revealed? And yet, as is the style of American journalists, a few US writers have taken to emitting theatrical yawns, most spectacularly a reporter for a magazine called Fortune named Dan Primack, who declared: "There is nothing in there that will inform your opinion of Mitt Romney. How do I know? Because I saw many of the exact same documents months ago, after requesting them from a Bain Capital investor. What I quickly learned [was] that there was little of interest…"
Beauty and news being in the eye of the beholder, we can judge for ourselves, and in fact Primack – a contender for some sort of "reverse Pulitzer" for non-investigative journalism – is flat wrong. There are at least a few things that may indeed "inform" opinions of Mitt Romney.”
To know more:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/richard-adams-blog/2012/aug/23/mitt-romn...
It would be interesting to
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Aug. 24, 2012.
It would be interesting to see what the court's decision would be if the question before it where whether or not a BISHOP is an employee of the Vatican. At present, only the pope may appoint, transfer and/or remove a bishop. The "immunity" the Vatican still enjoys as a result of this ruling might very well be lost.
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John L.Allen Jr.Pied Piper of John Paul II deceives Catholics with his essay Fast-Track Saint in Newsweek -- with Vatican lunacy & Satanic timeline http://jp2army.blogspot.ca/
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